Curse

One and Two · Oct 27, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

/hug Dax.

So I still encourage people to read Fansite Friday 55, and find out Anet might increase level cap.

Personally I don't care which way it goes. I don't see why it should effect others, either.

PvE people support each other (in theory) and PvP is all max level (in theory).

Which brings up an entirely different debate.

fenix · Oct 27, 2005, 05:36 AM // 05:36

I think higher levels would be cool in some aspects. But I'm keen to see new skills added, and the new professions.

Alone) · Oct 27, 2005, 05:49 AM // 05:49

If there are going to be higher levels, I'm sure that the Anet people will try their best at still keeping it balanced.

So why really argue about how much hp one is going to have, or more attribute points? If they do plan on raising hp/energy, and attributes, weapons will also have to have new max damages. etc. etc.

Whatever works. Just looking forward to Chapter 2.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 27, 2005, 05:51 AM // 05:51

Fansite Friday 55 from Anet's news archives shows up as a chinese 404 to me. Could you post a link or quote from that indicates the level cap will increase?

As for balance ruination - one thing to consider is that Chapter 2 is not a free update, but PvP balance most be maintained between those who buy it and those who do not.

Granted you could put the level cap increase into a free patch, but then the question arises of where the old players are gaining these new levels. If you raise the cap to 40, where are they going to find level 35 monsters within chapter 1 content? Suddenly Arenanet has to add a lot of free areas from Chapter 2 if they want to allow PvEers to remain competitive with one another, at which stage Chapter 2 stops being an expansion and becomes a free update.

Likewise, changing the system to use higher numbers and react to them in the same way would require many changes to the system. Deep wounds and degen/regen have been mentioned, but people haven't even thought about primary attributes.

If you allow primary attributes to scale upwards you run into some very serious issues with balance. At 25 Expertise, all Expertise-modified skills become free of energy cost. At high Fast Casting the change either becomes negligible or near instant-casts all spells, depending on how diminishing returns are handled. High soul reaping allows a regen of your entire energy pool on every death, rather than a smallish boost. Energy Storage and Divine Favor are the only ones that would really scale up okay, and even them not very well.

So you have to rework primary attributes, degen/regen, Deep Wounds, Health Sacrifices, every new and old skill, and any number of other things...and for what, really?

A level cap change seems unlikely to me.

Dax · Oct 27, 2005, 06:24 AM // 06:24

It seems kinda funny to me that people hate the level grind but are more than happy to plug away repeatedly to build up skills.

I don't think they are going to change it, but I don't see what the big deal is about raising the level cap. It would create more diversity among classes and challenges.

Ah well what the hell do I know anyways

Hockster · Oct 27, 2005, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Granted you could put the level cap increase into a free patch, but then the question arises of where the old players are gaining these new levels. If you raise the cap to 40, where are they going to find level 35 monsters within chapter 1 content? Suddenly Arenanet has to add a lot of free areas from Chapter 2 if they want to allow PvEers to remain competitive with one another, at which stage Chapter 2 stops being an expansion and becomes a free update.

As the game is instanced they could have it set so that anytime there is a level 25 or higher party member in the group, the monsters will have an appropriate level as well. That would make Char farming outside Piken quite interesting.

Saerden · Oct 27, 2005, 07:39 AM // 07:39

Raising the level cap is betraying the last bit of integrity left in this game. If people would play such a simplistic pseudo-RPG called GW Level Grind, it would be a true testament to gamer stupidity. Many said it, i will say it again: if you like big numbers, go play with your calculator. When ANET changes the cap, GW will be dead. Wether they raise an ugly zombie out of the body and sell it a million times, i dont care. WoW and lineage II have millions of idiots playing.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 27, 2005, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Repeat after me. Higher levels do NOT equal better gaming. More skills and content IS better.

Higher levels does not equate to more diversity. That's crap.

unienaule · Oct 27, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

High max hp means degen and regen = near worthless ftl.

Lasareth · Oct 27, 2005, 08:20 AM // 08:20

The only instance where I can see a concept like this not throwing everything absurdly out of whack is in a PvE "dungeon" type environment, where your level cap is temporarily lifted and you fight insanely tough monsters just for the heck of it.

It would actually be pretty fun to abuse skills in an area where doing so has no consequence on the rest of the game.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Oct 27, 2005, 08:21 AM // 08:21

This is why I said more attribute points, you become deadlier with the same ammount of HP and Armor as you've always had. But doing it slowly, like one set of points every once in a great while.

I mean, if we got 30 more points right away, you'd see a drastic shift in how PVP works, by the builds people are making. Also, its good to keep the Attribute Max level (Without runes or head gear) at 12. That way, more attribute points simply means you have more to put into the other fields you dont use because you have to concentrate on 2-3 attributes to be active.

Also, PVP characters would be able to get the extra points either by new creation or by using all that faction they have sitting around.

Accurax · Oct 27, 2005, 08:39 AM // 08:39

OK, I dont know too much about this game yet.... only been playing for a week.

However, I played Diablo 2 for 4 years (on and off).

Now, based on my personal experiance I am of the opinion that raising the level cap would be a pretty bad idea.

Gone are the days of the Secret Cow Level. (weeps).

How about we avoid turning GW into a meat grinder, and instead add more quests, more skills, more items, more monsters. and more professions.

You could allow PVe's to continue to "progress" there chars by offering a variety of quest rewards.

And you balance this by allowing PVP'ers to "cash In" divine favour for a wider selection of goodies.

Just seems to me that increasing the level cap would be selling out.

I like to roleplay and pVP and extra content is what i want... not dull, repetitive leveling.

Like i said i'm only a week old in this game. but... these are my opinions

Thanks for reading

Rozsda · Oct 27, 2005, 08:55 AM // 08:55

i vote no for level cap increase, 20 is fine.
what they could implement i think (and as was mentioned before) is new skills, maybe more types of armor (same stats as others just different look..u get it) new weapons for warriors (like spear or poleaxe...some other two-hander than just hammer) and of course new spells/quests...everything that GW already has...just more of it.
Also if you look at the weapons (warrior sword/axe/hammer and ranger bow) there is only one of each which looks cool (chaos axe, storm bow, dragon sword...etc) i wish to see more of such cool looking weapons.
Maybe the ability to dye armors totally red for example? Like the guild cape...base color and outline color..or what. Or not totally red..but more than now. Look at the 15k Platemail Armor...it barely differs from 1.5k, not much more space to dye. I think it could bring even more uniqueness for each player.

(i vote big yes for more, different looking armors..stats dont matter if same..just the looks!)

John Waffletord · Oct 27, 2005, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Theres no need for a change.. its balanced as it is now, if they double the level cap, they'd double everything else, and it would be balanced when they're done too. So why do all that work to get the same outcome but with bigger numbers?

Snowman · Oct 27, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

I suppose in theory you could make it so that ONLY Role play characters can level up... and then get auto nerfed as they enter a pvp arena.

I disagree that you MUST increase the cap to pander for the PvE community, I played AD&D games since I was 7, I never got bored of them.. the level restriction on those is about 19/20....

ok, so some ad&d games you can go a few levels higher.. but the cap didnt make them boring. new monsters, new spells.. new stories, items, weapons, classes.. even different worlds... these are the things which keeps a game interesting. not its level..

leveling is usually only a means to experience those new things in any given game, whereas in guildwars its about getting to certain places and doing missions (like getting the pet spider in underworld)

Jetdoc · Oct 27, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

I am for having 1-2 new 15 point attribute quests, to give a little more flexibility in attribute allocation (it would be nice to have 2 primary skills at lvl 12 without eliminating your secondary). I would much more for it if you were required to do those quests solo (like the doppleganger), to make those that get the points truly earn it.

Funk ee Monk ee · Oct 27, 2005, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I vote yes for lvl cap increase, perhaps to 25, with each lvl after 20 giving you a new 'point', call it Wisdom Points for this discussion.

One Wisdom Point buys you:

- x attribute points (5?)
- opening up another slot on your skillbar, 13 slots possible rather than 8, or 2 more slots for 5 WP's
- x hit points (3?)
- x mp (3?)
- 1 hp or mp regen for 5 WP's

I especially want to carry more skills with me. When playing Prot/smite monk I always have to sacrifice some useful skill to bring a res.

Raiin Maker · Oct 27, 2005, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Not according to ANet. 'Nuff said.

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T INCREASE THE MAX LEVEL JUST 'CAUSE YOU'RE BORED.

here here, i total agree. the max lv at 20 is a brillaint idea. it means thats people dont gain respect instantly for being a high level jerk. you have to be a nice person in this game to be respected.

lv 20 is fine, and who needs new attributes? just bring out more skills IMO.

Dax · Oct 27, 2005, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Repeat after me. Higher levels do NOT equal better gaming. More skills and content IS better.

Higher levels does not equate to more diversity. That's crap.

Really huh, crap- that's a bit extreme. Dude, chill out they aren't going to do it.

What's the difference though grinding for skills or grinding for levels...lol there is none. They just changed the perception.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 03:17 PM // 15:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by One and Two

A lot of people think that allowing level 40 would make it so that people would max out every single attribute, and there would be no decisions.

That's a load of crap, and you know it.

The current maximum of an attribute is 12+3+1 (16). Now, at level 40, you would have a base health of 880, if health continues to increase at the same rate. How on earth would a level 16 fire spell, doing 50 damage, be able to effect this uber level 40?

The answer plainly is, it can't. Either battles will have to become larger, and spikes are the only kills, or attacks need to become more powerful.

So you've already demonstrated why raising the level cap would be a bad idea. It would require the game to chance too much, and with a game this dependant on balance, chaos would ensue. Sure, you can have a max of 16 in an attribute. However, you cannot have 16 in every attribute! Double the attribute points and you'll have people with 16's in every of their primary attributes and 12 in some secondaries as well.

If you can't see the problems with this... well, dang.